“The mafia statement though fatuous does reflect the way some people look at curtain ‘sacraments and rituals ‘ …” That may be true but only if one is in the mafia.

Your line of argument seems a tangled line, In an earlier post above you noted: “Unless God changes the heart and gives people the faith to believe ,no one will come to Christ…” This is a hopeful sign post. The late Canadian theologian and Philosopher Bernard Lonergan SJ once noted that faith is knowledge born of religious love. God’s love precedes knowledge about God. One way that you might free yourself from the Gordian knot of biblicism is to throw away that bible and start over with something more fundamental as alluded to in your post above i.e. your experience of God’s love.

There is certainly not much I will write here that is going to cross the chasm of our radically different starting points. But I do appreciate the conversation which allowed an opportunity to shine a critical light on the Billy Graham hagiography; but then a wake, as we call it down home, is often a time of excess and hagiography. ( :

“an orthodox sacramental theology is fairly clear on that point” If that were the case the church should abandon preaching the gospel ,which they have almost succeeded at, at just go on a mission to baptize as many people as they can ,what they believe is irrelevant. Just because the church comes up with a theology orthodox or liberal does not mean that it is biblical correct . In the process the bible put belief before baptism “Repent and be baptized,” , “Whoever believes and is baptized..” So if some is not baptized they are not but believe are they “christian”? There are people in the church that have more faith in the sacrament then in what the sacrament symbolizes an inward and spiritual grace. a sacrament is just a symbol of something that has happen in the inner man , a symbol is just a representation of something not the thing itself. It is not a magic incantation that brings a result . The mafia statement though fatuous does reflect the way some people look at curtain “sacraments and rituals ” as possessing some power to invoke a result

As for Billy’s repentance of politics, you are only partially correct. His tepid late arrival to the civil rights movement in the U.S. remains a key aspect in the evaluation of his controversial legacy. Currently, the African-American community has a very different appraisal on Graham’s legacy. Finally, I once heard Graham, in an interview, say that he wished he had studied more. Probably a wise self evaluation.

Billy has by him own admission regretted that he involved himself politically but the left is just as guilty as the right so one shouldn’t point fingers. The church can give false hope on both sides of the argument about someone’s ultimate relationship with God easy believeism is a risk on both sides and time will tell. But the church should also make it abundantly clear that performing some sort of ritual will not in and of itself save anyone. If there is no change of heart there is no conversion . Sort of like those in the mafia would do their dirty work throughout the week then go to church on Saturday for confession and believe they get a clean slate .

“… large groups of people come out for a baptism who have never graced the door of a church and go through the ritual because they had it done to them …” Actually, I would not disagree with this observation in a qualified way. Having celebrated baptisms for decades, the politics of the thing were sometimes a problem. Those of us who attempted to pastor young families within the context of baptismal discipline were often frustrated by colleagues and bishops who were afraid of the ‘tyranny of the grand-parents’. Ironically, the same church is now promoting a ‘missional’ approach which seems to be a kind of panic stricken effort to get people to fill up redundant buildings.

Notwithstanding, I can tell you that baptismal preparation did result in a deepening of faith and commitment within parish life for some families; but I can’t recall a single person who belonged to a parish I served in because of the altar call gimmick. In fact, the televangelist industry usually mitigated against the local community of faith where the word is faithfully preached and the sacraments of redemption are celebrated.

“A lot of people have a problem with Billy cause they have a problem with the gospel as spelled out in the bible.” The American right, which included Graham and certainly includes his legacy, everything from supporting Nixon and Regan era foreign policies to attitudes towards other faiths, has nothing to do with gospel as I understand it.

If there is no conversion in the human heart baptism is an empty ritual that is as empty. It someone says the sinners prayer or walks down an isle without the inner change of the heart ,it is meaningless and just ,as I said before amounts to “fire insurance” . Unless God changes the heart and gives people the faith to believe ,no one will come to Christ,in other-words no one comes to God under their own steam,it is a gift of God. It should have read peripheral “player” “but what could be more theatrical than the ‘born again’ altar call shtick? ” If looking to call things shtick then over the last 60 yrs I have seen a lot of shtick around baptism in the ACC I have seen large groups of people come out for a baptism who have never graced the door of a church and go through the ritual because they had it done to them but if you talk with them you find out they are quite agnostic about the whole thing.I know many people who have come to Christ through Billy Grahams salvation “show ” ,that after 30 or 40 yrs are still firm believe who attend church weekly and share the gospel with those around . A lot of people have a problem with Billy cause they have a problem with the gospel as spelled out in the bible.

Graham’s style of salvation show in the last century played out the politically savvy strengthening of fundamentalist Christianity with the American political right, resulting in a kind of “Americanity”. The fascination ( and nostalgia) for this kind of thing on the part of some Anglicans outside the U.S. is telling in several regards.

What is the Gospel ? No one ever became a Christian through rituals . Walking down an aisle or being baptized or taking communion ever made anyone a Christian ,there are many that use these as “fire insurance” though. Unless there is a change of heart in the person there is no conversion and that change of heart can only come as ,as Paul put it , a gift from God. Some on the left have made the person of Jesus a peripheral play and whether or not he existed is inconsequential ,for they say most of the things done in the gospel were put there long after the fact to bolster their cause. Billy preached as Paul before him “I strive to know nothing but Christ and Him crucified”